August, 2008 – A new Fumin bin Lyin has emerged
This time, it’s Robert Wagner, of Orlando, FL (formerly Schaumburg, IL). Here’s his list:
- “I served in Laos and Cambodia.” – May 28, 2008
Wagner admitted to being stationed in Okinawa and Thailand with the US Marines, and being discharged in 1963. The number of US uniformed personnel in either Laos or Cambodia was very small, and the ones who were there generally aren’t bragging about it. Wagner has not produced a shred of evidence that he ever set foot in Laos or Cambodia.
- “I went to law school on the GI Bill.” – May 31, 2008
He didn’t actually go to law school. He sent in money for a correspondence course at La Salle Extension University. He eventually revealed that he is a high-school dropout.
- “Smokers are not addicted to nicotine any more than alcoholics are addicted to alcohol, gamblers are addicted to gambling, sex addicts are addicted to sex, food addicts are addicted to food or religion addicts are addicted to religion.” – April 15, 2008
The tobacco industry’s own scientists acknowledge that nicotine is addictive. That’s why they began the practice of “nicotine spiking”.
- “Given that tobacco is legal, its users are not drug addicts.” – June 6, 2008
Gambling is a legal activity in many places. Does that mean that there’s no such thing as a gambling addict?
- “Scientists once had credibility. Antismokers destroyed that by turning them into whores.”
- June 27, 2008
These “antismokers” that Robert is talking about must be very powerful people to accomplish such a feat.
- “It was written as a letter to the editor of BMJ, apparently by a British doctor.” – July 19, 2008
The letter in question was actually written by tobacco industry stooge Michael McFadden, alias Cantiloper. He is neither British nor a doctor.
- “The quotation didn’t come from a Nigerian newspaper because there aren’t any; the people are illiterate.” – July 19, 2008
A couple of minutes worth of Google searching reveals that there are several Nigerian newspapers, and there are Nigerians capable of reading them.
- “You present Niger as an example of enlightenment.” -
July 21, 2008
No, I didn’t.
- “Hating is a healthy thing. — Shawn Hirn, alt.smokers, July 29, 2008″ – July 29, 2008
What Shawn actually wrote was, “Hating tobacco is a healthy thing.”
- “Usually, on the first day of the ban, antismokers visit bars to give each other high fives, congratulate themselves, and buy one drink.
“They never visit the bars again.” – Aug. 2, 2008
When did this happen, and where? And just how “usual” is this behavior? When asked to back up this accusation, Robert came up empty-handed.
- “The phrase Antismoking Nazis is an unfair insult to the German Nazis, who got a few things right and, if nothing else, didn’t disgrace themselves.” – Aug. 15, 2008
Just like the original Fumin bin Lyin; when all else fails, start calling people Nazis (see below). Wagner subsequently wrote, “I’m not a Nazi apologist or defender.” (Also Aug. 15.)
In an attempt to defend this ridiculous statement, Wagner offered Werner von Braun, Leni Riefenstahl, and Fritz Jakobsmeier as examples of Nazis who didn’t disgrace themselves. The truth is, von Braun had to answer for his use of slave labour, Riefenstahl was unable to make films after WWII, and Jakobsmeier wasn’t a Nazi at all. Wagner defamed Jakobsmeier by claiming that he was a Nazi.
- “Professional Indoor Air Quality (IAQ) experts avoid the smoking issue because they know it’s political, not a real hazard.” – Dec. 23, 2008
What the indoor air quality experts actually say is, there is no known safe level of exposure to tobacco smoke.
- “‘It smells yucky’ is their proof.” (referring to the environmental tobacco smoke hazard) – Dec. 27, 2008
No, we have lots of other proof. Take, for example, this public statement from Philip Morris USA: “”We also believe that the conclusions of public health officials concerning environmental tobacco smoke are sufficient to warrant measures that regulate smoking in public places.”
- “All antis “know” is how to repeat lies. For instance, the one about spiking cigarettes with extra nicotine came from the 1994 testimony of ’7 dwarfs’ tobacco execs before US Congress. Anti leadership has not used it since because it never was true, but followers are still repeating it as ‘fact.’” – December 29, 2008
From SourceWatch: “To freebase nicotine, cigarette companies add ammonia, usually in the form of diammonium phosphate. The addition of ammonia, a base, de-protonates nicotine, making it cross through membranes in the body much more easily. This makes the drug more “bioavailable” to the lungs, brain and tissues.”
- “[Dr. Jill Pell's] study was sponsored by the Study Of Public place Intervention on Tobacco exposure (STOPIT), a rabidly antismoking group.
It was never published in a peer reviewed journal, nor anywhere else.” – January 12, 2009
Dr. Pell’s study was published in the New England Journal of Medicine:Smoke-free Legislation and Hospitalizations for Acute Coronary Syndrome.
- “Pell held up publication for nine months because she feared it contained enough information to reveal
the trick.” – November 14, 2009
Wagner failed to produce any evidence to support this wild accusation. No word yet on whether Dr. Pell has applied for a restraining order.
- “Tobacco smoke is the most heavily studied substance, yet they can’t explain how it causes cancer.All they know is that there’s a statistical correlation.” – January 24, 2009
Tobacco smoke contains 43 known carcinogens. If you inhale a substance into your lungs that contains carcinogens many times each day, you’ll probably get cancer. Nobody needs statistics to figure this out.
- “There is evidence that children exposed to second hand smoke are healthier than children not exposed, after they become adults.” – February 16, 2009
There is evidence? And just where might this evidence be?
- “Crib death and low birth weight are caused by poverty, not smoking.” – February 27, 2009
Again, where is the evidence to support this claim?
- “AntismokerSpeak: banishing 20% of the population increases freedom.” – March 4, 2009
When asked which “antismoker” actually said or wrote such a thing, Fumin bin Lyin was unable to come up with anything.
- “No, it’s not common to lie about political funding, it’s very uncommon. People go to jail for it. Antismokers are the largest group that gets away with it.” – May 29, 2009
“Antismokers” are getting away with a crime punishable with jail time? If that’s the case, it would be reasonable to expect Fumin bin Lyin to back up this accusation with at least one name, place, date, and amount. As usual, he was unable to do so.
- “What rights? It can’t be a right to clean air because you’re not complaining about other sources of air pollution.” – July 6, 2009
Yes, it can be the right to clean air, and this “not complaining about other sources of air pollution” is a total fabrication.
- “Tobacco is the most studied substance in the history of medical research. If it caused anything directly, researchers would have found the etiology decades ago.” – August 8, 2009
The fact is, tobacco causes lung cancer, throat cancer, emphysema, and a long list of other diseases. Contrary to bin Lyin’s nonsensical claim, researchers discovered this decades ago.
- “You didn’t answer my question about why scientists not working for BAT didn’t discover that second hand smoke is worse than first hand.” – October 16, 2009
The “question” posed here was regarding the disclosure that scientists funded by the tobacco industry concluded that second-hand smoke was in fact more toxic than mainstream smoke, especially for low-delivery cigarettes. It’s a lie, because there are scientists not working for BAT who came to the same conclusion; James Repace, for example.
- “[Jacob] Sullum took $5,000 once fifteen years ago from Big Tobacco, making him dirty for the rest
of his life.” – October 26, 2009
Noted tobacco industry stooge Jacob Sullum received $10,000 from Philip Morris, $5,000 from R.J. Reynolds, and an unspecified amount from Philip Morris subsidiary Kraft.
- “Along comes global warming, which went from zero to doctrine seemingly overnight. Now, everyone who disagrees is dismissed out of hand as a heretic, a global warming denier.” – December 17, 2010
“Seemingly overnight?” Scientists started noticing in the 1930′s that United States and North Atlantic region had warmed significantly over the previous half-century, and G.S. Callendar predicted that this was a trend that would get worse. There was a scientific consensus on this by 1988. Al Gore’s book wasn’t published until 2000. This doesn’t fit any known definition of “overnight”.
- “Antis call themselves public health advocates, yet they’ve killed every attempt to make smoking safer.” – May 4, 2011
Anti-tobacco activists campaigned for years to require the tobacco industry to make fire-safe cigarettes, and it was the tobacco industry, not “antis”, who tried to kill this idea.
- “NO scientific study published before the EPA report found a statistically significant link between second hand smoke and disease. None, zero.” – May 23, 2011
To give just one example, Dr. Takeshi Hirayama published an epidemiological study in January 1981 that demonstrated that secondhand smoke increased the risk of lung cancer in nonsmoking Japanese women who were married to men who smoked compared with non-smoking women married to non-smoking men.
- “No study supports risk from second hand smoke outdoors, such as parks and beaches. If you know of one, cite it.” – May 24, 2011
Sure, no problem. http://www.repace.com/pdf/outdoorair.pdf
- “Employment statistics show a smoking ban causes a 10% decline in bar volume. Antis lie about that fact by measuring sales volume in dollars. They don’t tell you the remaining 90% of customers are paying for the ban through higher prices.” – June 29, 2011
Uh, isn’t sales volume usually measured in dollars? That’s how the tobacco industry measures their sales volume. Why should those “antis” measure it some other way?
- “But when they find a harmful effect, as they have for decades, they act as though understanding the etiology is unimportant and impossible.” – July 9, 2011
The scientists that Wagner refers to here have done no such thing. This is just a case of Wagner repeating a lie repeated many times by Stephen Hartwell, another pathological liar.
- “You have [received money] through Airspace.” – November 6, 2011
When Wagner was asked how much and from who, he responded with a non-sequitur about Joseph McCarthy. The truth is that the bylaws of Airspace Smoking and Health forbid the payment of any wages or other compensation to the society’s directors.
- “The truth is, Airspace has received contributions to support your opposition to tobacco. We cannot see how much (or little) those contributions were because Airspace is not a registered charity, thus does not file public reports.” – November 10, 2011
The truth is, Airspace has been registered under the Societies Act of British Columbia since the 1980′s. Airspace files a financial report and a list of directors annually, as required by the Act. Wagner also presented evidence that Airspace is not registered under the Charities Act of Prince Edward Island. Since Prince Edward Island is about 6,100 km. from Vancouver, and one of Canada’s other nine provinces, there’s no reason why Airspace should be registered in Prince Edward Island.
- “Cities have bans; “country” towns do not. You did not visit Real Texas.” – February 6, 2013
This lie was told in a discussion of smoking bans in Texas. During 2012, I visited El Paso (including Rosa’s Cantina, which is a ways out of town), Austin, Georgetown, San Antonio, and Laredo. These towns all have smoking bans in place. However, Wagner was unable to name any of the cities, towns, or areas of Texas that I went to, so the “Real Texas” claim is something that he just made up.
- “Antis SAY in their own literature that high taxes and smoking bans are intended to persecute smokers.” – April 4, 2013
When called upon to provide a specific example to back up this accusation, Wagner was unable to do so.
- “Dr. Glantz “found” a smoking ban reduced heart attacks in non-smokers by 60% in Helena MT.” – April 4, 2013
Wagner was attributing a “find” to Dr. Stanton Glantz PhD, Professor in the Department of Medicine at the University of California-San Francisco. Wagner provided a link to this document:http://www.bmj.com/content/
328/7446/977. However, when Wagner was asked to quote the passage in this paper that stated the smoking ban reduced heart attacks, he was unable to do so. That’s because Dr. Glantz’ paper contains no such conclusion.
Wagner is not fit to shine Dr. Glantz’ shoes.
- “Scientists do not know what causes lung cancer.” – May 28, 2013
Oh, yes, they do.
- “The goal of antismokers is social change. Air quality is just an
excuse. They don’t care about air quality.” – April 13, 2014
Nonsense. Air quality was the primary motive for banning smoking on airplanes, in elevators, restaurants, schools, offices, and pretty much everywhere else.
And, here’s a case where Wagner told the truth:
“Yes, hate mongering and willful ignorance are worse than smoking, because they kill the practitioner’s soul long before his body dies.” - March 8, 2011
Saturday Night Live‘s analysis of pathological liars
Penelope is recurring character played by Kristin Wiig on Saturday Night Live. It’s an insightful portrayal of pathological liars such as the ones identified on this page.
Click here to view a QuickTime video of a skit (with a guest appearance by Liza Minelli).
When a governing body makes a decision that you disagree with, there are many things that you can do about it. You can start a revolution. You can try to vote the people who made that decision out of office. You can try to convince the officeholders and the general public that they have made a mistake, using facts and logic.
Suppose, however, that the decision that you disagree with is a ban on smoking in indoor public places. It’s pretty difficult to convince anyone that cigarette smoke is anything other than harmful. What to do?
Call people you disagree with you “Nazis”
Yeah, that will work. It doesn’t matter of the people you’re talking about are civil servants, health care professionals, politicians, educators, or people that live down the street. Calling people “Nazis” is guaranteed to win people over to your point of view.
So, that didn’t work, eh? Maybe it’s because there isn’t any factual information in support of your cause. In that case, invent some facts.
“In the city of Kitchener, Ontario, home to the crippled “smoke-free Oktoberfest”, city councillors just voted themselves a 60% pay increase. Is this a pat on the back for the “great job” they did bankrupting dozens of businesses because of their zero-tolerance smoking ban?” – Fuming Mad, Feb. 1, 2001
“Dozens”? When called upon to identify these “dozens” of businesses, Fuming was able to name one dozen. Closer examination revealed that almost all of them had problems other than the no-smoking requirement. In fact, when the no-smoking bylaw was challenged in court, only one business owner showed up with receipts to testify under oath.
“Eventually, somebody will come forward and scare the pants off all the anti-smoking zealots who happily drive their gas-guzzling SUVs day after day!” – Fuming Mad, Jan. 19, 2001
“if I named some SUV-driving anti-smoking zealots (and trust me, Waterloo Region, Ontario, is full of them)” – Fuming Mad, Feb. 4, 2001
Wow, people who oppose smoking, but pollute the air with a wasteful form of transportation. Sounds pretty serious, all right. But do people like this exist in significant numbers? When pressed to name even one of these hypocrites, Fuming was unable to do so. Eventually, he made this admission:
“I cannot name even one anti-smoking zealot that drives an SUV” -
Aug. 28, 2001
“Soooo, Paul… what’s this I hear about you getting fired from Compaq??” – Fuming Mad, June 17, 2001
This refers to Paul Smith, of Houston, Texas. Paul has not been fired by Compaq. Soooo, why did Fuming Mad make this remark?
“I bet people like Bawb, Bwucie, and Pox Poopie will try to say why gambling is a good thing, ignoring all the negatives that it promotes and creates.” – Fuming Mad, August 30, 2001
Assuming that the “Bawb” referred to here is Vancouver, BC community activist Bob Broughton, this statement is a lie. Bob has been a public opponent of mega-casino projects in both Vancouver and New Westminster. So, on what information was Fuming Mad’s claim based? He simply made it up.
As of April 6, 2001, “Bwucie” and “Pox Poopie” have not tried to say that gambling is a good thing, either.
“I’d also bet anything that I’m not a smoker, and have never been one, regardless of what Lying Bawb spews forth…” – Fuming Mad, September 29, 2001
When Fuming Mad was offered the opportunity to bet $200 that he is not a smoker, he was unwilling to to do so. He said that he would “bet anything”, right?
“Watch your mouth or I’ll get a buddy of mine from Burnaby (your town!) to come beat the shit out of you…” – Fuming Mad, Feb. 4, 2001
This is the problem with the Fuming Mads of this world. They always think that someone else should do something, instead of getting out from in front of the TV set and doing it themselves.
“Brian ‘Harebrain’ Hatton bribed someone who works for http://www.labstat.com with $99,000, then tried to cover up the debt by claiming it was the loss K-W Oktoberfest suffered due to a plummet in Beanie Baby sales. The exact date is unclear… sometime between 1994 and 2001.” – Fuming Mad, May 6, 2002
“Sometime between 1994 and 2001″? Well, that really narrows it down, doesn’t it?
Any worthwhile site, has to have links, right? Here’s one:
F.A.R.C.E.S. (Foster All Restrictions to Control and Eliminate Smoking)
Fuming Mad hates “antis”. Here’s a web site put up by the anti-anti-antis.